8/31/07 - Boobies of DOOM

Subject: Re: 8/31/07 - Boobies of DOOM Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:28 pm

The more depth a character has the more he deserves to be in hell. Because we all know the interesting characters are the villians.

Left the forum Joined : 29 Apr 2007 Posts : 732

Shivering Isles Resident Joined : 26 Mar 2007 Posts : 9466

Subject: Re: 8/31/07 - Boobies of DOOM Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:23 pm

You know, I know there are a lot of siggy fanboys (or fangirls) out there, but I am forced to agree with the detractors on this one.

Mostly for the reasons stated.

All that being said however, I would feel a little more comfortable if we could see some sort of list of rules that is used to determine if people get into heaven or hell. I mean, if it is a deeganverse version of a Bible so be it, but as far as I can tell, the actual politics about getting into heaven, hell, or something else we have yet to see is about as well-thought out and presented as the Callanian legal system.
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Shivering Isles Resident Joined : 26 Mar 2007 Posts : 9466

"Infernal" and "Angelic" are elements, right? Just like order and chaos, and creation and destruction? What if people were... split... into their angelic/infernal parts, but their soul went with the greater half?
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Spoiler:

Subject: Re: 8/31/07 - Boobies of DOOM Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:00 pm

Subject: Re: 8/31/07 - Boobies of DOOM Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:13 pm

It doesn't say people with "good intentions" go to heaven. It says "Good people who do bad things have a CHANCE at peace in the afterlife." (emphasis mine) Sigfried wasn't a good person. Sure, he had a semi-decent heart, but he was a closed minded, impulsive, abusive, violent, hateful, racist punk who happened to carry a badge of office giving him the right to be those things and get away with it. He was *not* a good person in the end, and thus, he went where he was supposed to.
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Shivering Isles Resident Joined : 26 Mar 2007 Posts : 9466

The question then becomes, "what defines morality in the DD universe?"

As of yet, I have not seen any sort of god/gods, though there have been several demons and one angel.
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Subject: Re: 8/31/07 - Boobies of DOOM Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:41 pm

Shoddy world-building? In Dominic Deegan?

Good sir, I'll have no more of your scurrilous accusations. colbert

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Age : 30 Joined : 27 Aug 2007 Posts : 74 Location : City 17

Not to summon Dungeons and Dragons terminology, but I considered Siggy to be "chaotic good." Most of the atrocious things he did, he honestly and truly believed he was serving the greater good in doing them. Whether anyone else agreed or not, those were his intentions. Not his fault he was too short-sighted to see the big picture most of the time, and too quick-to-temper to help himself. He did follow some code of honor, above the typical Royal Thugs of Callan.

And if we've learned anything from DD, it's that we never know the whole story, especially here, at the introduction of the plot arc. Inevitably we will learn more of the situation, and events leading up to his predicament in time.
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Subject: Re: 8/31/07 - Boobies of DOOM Sat Sep 01, 2007 4:12 am

I liked Siggy because he provided a unique prespective on comedy that is brought forth by savage, and rather unique, beatings. Because it was presented in a comedic light, and back in those days, I had a lot more fun with life.

I don't want to be labelled a "Siggy cultist", but I have to disagree on a couple comments. I felt Siggys savage and brutal killings of his fellow Knights was done under the spell of insanity. Do I think he deserved punishment? Yes. Do I think he deserved to be locked up for it? Yes. But I also felt he deserved the one thing he never seemed to get, from anyone, at any point in the comic (note he was stopped once or twice by Jayden + Milov, who just noted you had to know Siggy - aka they knew he had issues, but did nothing to help) which would be mental help. Psychiatric therapy. Did he ever get that? No. What happened in his violent rages were his responsibility, yes, but it was also the responsibility of everyone around him, who knew him, and who did absolutely nothing to help him with his problems. I assume the nurses who tended to the hurt knights and ignored him could likely be lumped into this group.

Furthermore, the racism card I consider personally, to be very Non-Canon. I don't expect anyone to agree with me here, as we saw it happen in the comic, but it was something that he didn't display as prevalant, if at all, in any of the other arcs. In other words, we all know Mookie wanted to kill him. He was cited at a con to have said that he hated Siggy, because he represented lots of the bad people in his life, back in the day...or something along those lines. In shorter terminology, Siggy was demonized in that arc, with sudden hateful and racist views ingrained into his character, staining it forever. On purpose. So we would hate him, just like the creator does.

It's called sloppy writing. While Mookie has never claimed to be anything near the top in the writing department, he has respect from various communities for the stories he has strung together, and lets face it, we're all here reading it. There has to be something we like, or did like, about the comic at some point.

To me, suddenly forcing a very racist, very dominantly in that arc, personality on a character spur of the moment so when he was eventually killed off we'd all go YAAAY THE BAD MEAN MAN IS DEAD is just horrible. (You'll also note it didn't work, quite the opposite, actually...) Siggy was a character a lot of people liked because he brought a certain uniqueness to the comic. Making him suddenly racist for one arc wasn't going to make everyone hate him...that'd be like introducing a character in an arc and killing him off later that arc and expecting us all to be horrifically traumatized that he was killed. Oh wait. I forgot about Klo'(Kenny)Tark....who was later AGAIN killed by Siggy... >_>;

I respect the minorities opinion that siggy was a racist bastard, because in the comics timeline, apparently he was. To the rest of the viewers prespective (minus those on the fence, of course) Siggy wasn't a racist prick at all. That was just sloppy writing thrust upon us to make his death okay.

But I think most of us can agree in many ways, he was a prick. Whether or not he is entirely to blame...well...did I manipulate what was presented in comic form to encourage you to agree in some degree, or did I guide you?

I'll let you be the judge of that.

(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

And as a final thought, apparently the Author has decided if you're mentally insane, and do things lacking complete control in the heat of the moment (ie he saw his decapitated dads head, and went on an insane rampage, taking lives along the way) you go to hell. No chance for redemption, or to even relieve the burden off your soul.

And as a final comment, I'll just state I believe he was insane in the heat of the moment, because he idolized his father, loved him to death. His father was murdered, Siggy went berserk. After it was all said and done, he appeared to have seen clarity in his final moments, but before he had a chance to do anything about what he had done, he died. Then went to hell.

Subject: Re: 8/31/07 - Boobies of DOOM Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:05 am

You all do realize Siggy went to hell because Karnak stole his soul for his own before Dominic could perform a sending?

(People die and Dominic dances)

I wondered about that. I mean, does that mean Karnak could essentially steal the souls of anybody? It really didn't seem like Siggy "WENT" to hell, but much more like Karnak "TOOK HIM" to hell.

That makes the whole morality thing moot.
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Subject: Re: 8/31/07 - Boobies of DOOM Sat Sep 01, 2007 10:26 am

Siggy's racist beliefs and violent nature seems to all stem from what he learnt from his father and the knightly order. Indeed, from what we've seen, Siggy was actually one of the better knights, who actually upheld the laws and ideals of the order. The way he deals with situation is always violent, but it might be that that's just how all knights are trained to react.

To us, he would certainly seem to have issues, but I doubt that Siggy himself would see it that way. To him, what he does is right. If he thought that he needed help, he would have sought it out (him seeking out Dom). As I see it, you can't fix something you don't believe to exist. Whether his way of living would have earnt him a spot in heaven is debatable, since the tenants and laws of his religious orders have never been stated. Personally, I would think that he wouldn't have. But like said previously, Karnak 'stole' his soul and hence why we find ourselves in our current situation.

Siggy is the violent oath with the heart of gold. He means well, but never goes about it the 'right' way.