|
Goto page :  1, 2, 3, 4  |
| Author | Message |
|---|
Phoenix
Born of Ashes
Age : 17
Joined : 30 Sep 2007
Posts : 3895
Location : Down Under
|  Subject: Re: Story help pwease!  Thu May 01, 2008 12:45 am | |
| | Jack's Spirit wrote: | | Lady Buggery wrote: | I yet again, disagree. Sure raw materials are wonderful, for they have potential BUT just as you can't use raw elements to say fuel a car until they are refined into proper fuel, one can't simply write with raw, untrained ideas. If this were true any creative person would be a world famous writer, and yet only scant few are.
I should note that I'm included in this xD. I'm still working on becoming a decent writer. |
That doesn't mean the person has to go through formal education to be a good writer. Most of my favourite writer's never went to university, as did many of the successful people in the world. Going through university is not compulsory to be a skilled writer. It comes down to the issue of being talented or becoming talented. Both ways depend on the individual, and who they are, not whether or not they attended formal schooling. |
Bravo. Well said.
_________________
 | Spoiler: | | |  
|
|
|
  | |
Jack's Spirit
Archive Hound
Joined : 01 Apr 2007
Posts : 4145
Location : Australia
| | Subject: Re: Story help pwease! Thu May 01, 2008 12:46 am | |
| Aww. Thanks.  |
|
| | |
Lady Buggery
Bambeena
Age : 23
Joined : 21 Feb 2008
Posts : 136
Location : Delaware
| | Subject: Re: Story help pwease! Thu May 01, 2008 6:52 am | |
| | Phoenix wrote: | | The written word is an artform, not a science. |
Wrong.
Art is in and of itself a science. All of the great artists of the past (and present) even while claiming to just throw crap on a canvas at random know the formulas and the "rules" of art if you will. Yet again, if it was all about creative people on their own then all those creative people would be known, and yet they are not. This implies that there must be something, some refinement involved in order to create a master. Note there are scant few Michael Angelo's, Picasso's, and etc in the world: there is a reason for this.
Note that I'm not saying that formal training makes a good writer, you can know all the rules in the world and not have a scrap of creativity. BUT creative people need training in order to learn to focus their ideas in an attempt to create something unique and representative of themselves, not JUST their influences. I was very creative to start BUT with training I got a lot better and becuase of that training I continue to grow.
To quote many a good martial arts film:
Your cup is full. How can you expect to learn and fill your cup with kung fu (or the skills necessary to excel) if it is already full with your own conceptions and opinions?
_________________
Ever feel like a little bug in a big world? Yeah so do we...
Mushian Celesto's Champion |
|
| | |
Jack's Spirit
Archive Hound
Joined : 01 Apr 2007
Posts : 4145
Location : Australia
| | Subject: Re: Story help pwease! Thu May 01, 2008 7:42 am | |
| Art is so subjective that you can't claim that it has any logic or rules, which science is based on. For example, I can consider a very poorly written and sadly constructed story a work of art because I can appreciate the creative process of a child. There doesn't even have to be skill to create what one person, somewhere in the world, could consider art. Whereas science, you are wrong or you are right in most, if not cases (ignore the quantum physics, because that stuff is craaazy). Art, beauty, emotion, literature: it can never be classified or forced into the constraints of rules like a science can. The principles it deals with are too elusive.
...
Or I might have issues because my maths and science skills are sub par. One of the two.
Edit: And now I'm having images of the famous plastic bag being "the most beautiful thing in the world". |
|
| | |
Lady Buggery
Bambeena
Age : 23
Joined : 21 Feb 2008
Posts : 136
Location : Delaware
| | Subject: Re: Story help pwease! Thu May 01, 2008 9:41 am | |
| Hey now, I'm retarded when it comes to math, but even I can be made to see the formulas of art. The thing is, Art is a tool of the artist to evoke emotion from the viewer. Through the formulas of art, an artist can archive his or her desired effect. I've seen this most often in photography so I'll just post a simple example.
The idea of nose room. If you have a picture in which a duck is swimming, you may want to leave room in front of it. The viewer expect there to be space for the duck to move. If you crop the photo just in front of the duck, it makes the viewer feel as if that poor old duck is about to swim head first into an invisible wall at the edge of the photo.
Art is not as subjective as people think, otherwise it would not be taught at all in school. they do not teach opinions, but formulas and techniques.
_________________
Ever feel like a little bug in a big world? Yeah so do we...
Mushian Celesto's Champion |
|
| | |
James Draegun
The Re-Animator
Age : 19
Joined : 18 Mar 2008
Posts : 1826
| | Subject: Re: Story help pwease! Thu May 01, 2008 11:03 am | |
| *James reads only this page faintly*
There is a science to art.
There is an art to science.
But art, is not science.
And vice versa.
*James walks out knowing he has fufilled his amount of horrible quotes/phrases/philosophical-crap for the day*
_________________
| Spoiler: | | |   |
| James Draegun wrote: | | Look, lets get it straight, I'll probably mis-quote you, whoever you are, and no matter what you say, I'll find something pervy or just plain wrong with it. For that is the way of Rhindillisms |
|
|
| | |
Jack's Spirit
Archive Hound
Joined : 01 Apr 2007
Posts : 4145
Location : Australia
| | Subject: Re: Story help pwease! Thu May 01, 2008 2:35 pm | |
| | James Draegun wrote: | *James reads only this page faintly*
There is a science to art.
There is an art to science.
But art, is not science.
And vice versa.
*James walks out knowing he has fufilled his amount of horrible quotes/phrases/philosophical-crap for the day* |
...
That's scary JD, because I'm inclined to agree with that. O___o |
|
| | |
r1nn
Geeky Scarf-Loving Girls On The Internet
Age : 20
Joined : 07 Apr 2007
Posts : 3177
Location : United States
| |
| | |
Lady Buggery
Bambeena
Age : 23
Joined : 21 Feb 2008
Posts : 136
Location : Delaware
| | Subject: Re: Story help pwease! Thu May 01, 2008 7:04 pm | |
| I'm with r1nn. First part well put but saying that art is not a science and science is not an art won't get you very far with many people who make art or science a profession...
Take my profession: web design, for example. It is both mathematical and artistic.
_________________
Ever feel like a little bug in a big world? Yeah so do we...
Mushian Celesto's Champion |
|
| | |
Jack's Spirit
Archive Hound
Joined : 01 Apr 2007
Posts : 4145
Location : Australia
| | Subject: Re: Story help pwease! Fri May 02, 2008 3:53 am | |
| Science is an art in that you need skill to do it well, and there is a kind of magic in seeing all the things come together. Plus, you're basically creating stuff and...
Bah. I don't know enough about chemistry. Ask Sunny why science is an art, she's actually good at it.
Actually, you know, what, we're obviously not getting anywhere with this. Instead of running in circles and running kinda close to debate territory (my bad), why don't we go back to discussing Dokura's story? |
|
| | |
Phoenix
Born of Ashes
Age : 17
Joined : 30 Sep 2007
Posts : 3895
Location : Down Under
| | Subject: Re: Story help pwease! Fri May 02, 2008 4:04 am | |
| Think of science rather as what art may become rather than being just another word for it. It's just a definitive process that logically cannot be argued and therefore will remain constant.
ART on the other hand would be they discovery or conveyance of new or strange ideas that cannot be put down to just one process and as such cannot be called a tried and true science.
Oh and we have masters because they were well recognised and had something found popular to the greater community. It is not the only way to be creative and could never be a definitive artform.
I hate debating this subject now. Can we agree to dissagree?
Edit: ninja'd by Jack on ditching the subject.
_________________
| Spoiler: | | |
|
|
|
| | |
Vault Dweller
RAAAAAAAGE
Joined : 09 Sep 2007
Posts : 2675
Location : Australia
| | Subject: Re: Story help pwease! Fri May 02, 2008 9:02 am | |
| EVERYTHING IS ART
EVERYTHING IS SCIENCE
THEREFORE ART = SCIENCE
Also, Cruise Control. |
|
| | |
Marsco
I Saw The Sign
Age : 19
Joined : 07 Dec 2007
Posts : 2261
Location : 19 miles outside the windy city
| | Subject: Re: Story help pwease! Fri May 02, 2008 9:12 am | |
| The only thing i have to say on the subject is theres a reason theres a BA and a BS.
_________________
| Spoiler: | | |  |
| Spoiler: | | | 
 |
| Spoiler: | | |  |
|
|
| | |
Lady Buggery
Bambeena
Age : 23
Joined : 21 Feb 2008
Posts : 136
Location : Delaware
| | Subject: Re: Story help pwease! Fri May 02, 2008 1:39 pm | |
| | Marsco wrote: | | The only thing i have to say on the subject is theres a reason theres a BA and a BS. |
And there are degrees, like mine that are so weird I always get BA and BS confused (or shall I say, employers/other people do) Since a great deal of my degree is a combination of art, science, and mathematics as well as language study...or maybe I'm just weird. I DO draw bug girls instead of cat girls after all.
_________________
Ever feel like a little bug in a big world? Yeah so do we...
Mushian Celesto's Champion |
|
| | |
Sunny
TeniPuri fangirl
Joined : 21 Sep 2007
Posts : 1517
Location : Australia
| | Subject: Re: Story help pwease! Fri May 02, 2008 4:17 pm | |
| | Jack's Spirit wrote: | | Ask Sunny why science is an art, she's actually good at it. |
o___o What did I say!? *ponders going back through archives to find it*
I think Dokura disappeared from the thread XD You all scared her off!
_________________
 |
|
| | |
|
