Dominic Deegan Fansite

Joined : 08 May 2007 Posts : 321

DOUBLE POSTING TO START A NEW TOPIC TO MAKE THIS THREAD LESS SCARY:

I've wanted to ask people about this...I've been writing a novel, and at one point the group of characters end up breaking up into numerous groups for several chapters.

What are people's opinions of this sort of thing? Does jumping around from group to group annoy you? Is there a way to make it more tolerable?

EDIT: OR NOT A DOUBLE POST AT ALL. And yeah, Link, I only read what you said after I posted. I would agree. *Nods* So there you go.

Subject: Re: A little help...? Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:14 pm

It worked for Tolkien! Really, though, it doesn't bother me, so long as it doesn't interrupt the plot.
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Subject: Re: A little help...? Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:16 pm

I do that in mine a bit, and it's never had a true bad word said against it [other than some say it wasn't something to their liking, but that's an opinion matter]

Subject: Re: A little help...? Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:19 pm

I don't mind it at all if it's done well. Too many people try it without really knowing what they're getting into, and it just becomes confusing. You have to be clear about what group your with, about what the progression of time is, etcetera. And most of all, don't be away from a single group so long that you stop caring about that group, or worse, forget what they were doing entirely. Lastly, always remember to change groups on a cliffhanger if possible.
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Joined : 08 May 2007 Posts : 321

Very good points. And yeah, cliffhangers are no problems. xD I'm one of those bastards that ends pretty much every chapter with a cliffie.

On a related note, how many main characters would you say is TOO MANY main characters?

Subject: Re: A little help...? Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:27 pm

the ammount you can handle + 1
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"Bears have penises. They can stick it in butts."
~LS

Subject: Re: A little help...? Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:27 pm

When you start to lose track of who is who, and did what, that means it has gotten a little out of hand. When YOU as the writer do that, it has gotten way out of hand. I think 10 is the most I have ever seen done, and had it work. In a single book, anyways.
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Joined : 08 May 2007 Posts : 321

Oh noes. That extra guy is going to have a hard time.

EDIT: Yeah...ten seemed like it...though, it would depend on your definition of "main character".

Subject: Re: A little help...? Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:28 pm

I like my answer better.

EDIT: Ninja'd. Yes, that extra guy will have a hard time.
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"Bears have penises. They can stick it in butts."
~LS

Joined : 08 May 2007 Posts : 321

The problem I have with judging how many characters is too confusing, is that obviously since I'M writing the thing, I know all the characters quite well. So while it may seem perfectly obvious who all these different people are, the reader might be downright muddled.

The same thing goes for plot exposition and all those other things. It can be hard to see it from the writer's perspective.

Subject: Re: A little help...? Tue Jun 05, 2007 7:43 pm

The best bet I think would be giving your work to someone else. If they're confused by who is who, get rid of some characters.
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"Bears have penises. They can stick it in butts."
~LS

Subject: Re: A little help...? Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:02 am

Hmmm. I don't mind it for plot purposes, but if I get to the stage I'm using a flowchart to work out who's doing what, it starts to bug me.

The optimum amount of groups I can handle is about four before I start getting frustrated. But I think Link's suggestion would work best. You never know if somethings going to work unless you give it to someone to try out. : P
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Subject: Re: A little help...? Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:29 am

If you feel the need to make a 'who's who' at either the beginning or end of the story/book, it's probably too many characters. As far as seperating a main group into smaller groups, just remember to properly seperate the groups so your readers don't go "Wait, weren't they just over there? Or did s/he change groups without telling us again?"

And for my own questions: Anyone have any suggestions on how to keep a villain's true identity secret? Right now he's using an alias among his coconspirators, but when he's among the trusted 2 who know his true identity, I can't really see them continuing with the alias.

Also, I'm horrible at coming up with names. Main characters is enough of a problem, but how do you come up with throwaway names for background characters? Especially in a fantasy setting with a different naming style?

Honor and Virtue Joined : 31 Mar 2007 Posts : 4232

Fantasy names are tricky, IMO. I tend to use http://www.behindthename.com and search for whatever meaning happens to cross my mind. Or I use Latin. I think the trick is to pick a name that doesn't sound too outlandish but one that you're not likely to run into very often.

Example - I've got a character named Fenestra. It's no weirder than some of the names I've heard, but I've never met anyone with that name.

Subject: Re: A little help...? Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:51 pm

I would like to add, on the subject of "having too many characters" that there can be levels beyond "primary and secondary" character. Take, for example, any of Michael A. Stackpole / Arron Alston's X-wing series of books. It's about a military unit, so not only do they need the 12 people who make up the squadron, but they also need superiors, specialists, consultants, and adversaries.

The authors handle the problem by having invisible "tiers." Though no characters are more important within context, some characters rank higher than others as they are expressed to the reader. Corran Horn, and a handful of other characters, get center stage. A dozen other characters stand a little to the side, some more characters stand a bit further to the side, and still more characters stand quite far to the side. This doesn't mean the furthest characters out are less important though--Corran Horn's best friend, who he speaks to often, could be considered a 4th tier character. (or so)

Katyra - have you read my short scene "Opening?" (http://dominicdeegan123.actifforum.com/General-Discussion-c4/General-Literature-Art-f16/Opening-t318.htm) I think I did a pretty decent job there of keeping the character's identity a secret from the reader, even though it wasn't a secret to the other people in the scene. Though I actually edited it a bit after posting it here to strengthen that effect.

Also, about names, I usually just play with syllables, and put them together. There are also some fantasy name generators on the internet that are helpful. Mythology, and non-english languages (I usually use Japanese, but Latin, Ancient Greek, and other dead languages are very helpful) are also good sources.

The most important advice I'd give to you when naming characters is to make them simple. Here's an example.

A characters first and last name: Sentai Gresk.

Simple, right? You can glance at it and read it. but what if the whole thing was one name.

Sentaigresk

This is long, arduous. If you took a moment to look, you'd be able to pronounce it easily enough. It would be pronounced pretty much the same way right? But readers tend to skip right over long confusing words like that one. They just remember what it looks like. It still functions as a name. They can recognize it when they see it, but they can't pronounce it. It's just the way the human mind works.
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"Bears have penises. They can stick it in butts."
~LS