Dominic Deegan Fansite
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dragonfly
The Robot Devil
Joined : 08 Dec 2007
Posts : 4368
Location : Lurking on some wall
 |  Subject: Re: Words Fail  Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:56 pm | |
| Grimzag wins. Case closed.
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"You may need to metaphorically make a deal with the devil. By 'devil' I mean robot devil and by 'metaphorically' I mean get your coat."
~Bender from Futurama
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|   | | Reitrenner
Pleasure Specialist
Joined : 19 Nov 2007
Posts : 1312
| | Subject: Re: Words Fail Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:05 pm | |
| Well of course, Science can not teach us morals or values, but I would much rather calculate than pray.
God is a lie, science works. We know that praying for an apple tree to grow will not produce an apple tree. PLANTING one will.
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| | | | Maulkin
Shivering Isles Resident
Joined : 26 Mar 2007
Posts : 9697
| | Subject: Re: Words Fail Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:07 pm | |
| Who says you can't do both?
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| | | | Reitrenner
Pleasure Specialist
Joined : 19 Nov 2007
Posts : 1312
| | Subject: Re: Words Fail Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:09 pm | |
| Because praying will have the same outcome as waiting, but I can level my blood elf hunter while I wait.
My tree will bloom based on the amount of care and attention I give it. Praying to an invisible man will produce no results, that is fantasy. It's pure superstition. Prayer doesn't do anything.
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| | | | Maulkin
Shivering Isles Resident
Joined : 26 Mar 2007
Posts : 9697
| | Subject: Re: Words Fail Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:11 pm | |
| Old Russian Proverb - "Pray, but keep rowing to shore." Christians pray, but we know that God also wants us to solve our own problems if we can. Or, rather, solve problems with His help.
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| | | | Reitrenner
Pleasure Specialist
Joined : 19 Nov 2007
Posts : 1312
| | Subject: Re: Words Fail Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:15 pm | |
| Then why has God never healed an amputee?
Hmm?
The bible also says that if we ask for anything in his name it will be done.
Alas, if God does indeed have a divine plan, why must we then, Pray. It's pointless because God already knows what is going to happen, just like god already knows if you or I is going to hell. Because he is a morbid creation of human imagination.
God is a Fantasy. He is about as real as Gandalf.
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| | | | dragonfly
The Robot Devil
Joined : 08 Dec 2007
Posts : 4368
Location : Lurking on some wall
| | Subject: Re: Words Fail Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:16 pm | |
| Guys, really, why bother having a religious debate over the internet? No one will change their views based on it. I can understand wanting to get your point out there, but srsly.
_________________
"You may need to metaphorically make a deal with the devil. By 'devil' I mean robot devil and by 'metaphorically' I mean get your coat."
~Bender from Futurama
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| | | | Maulkin
Shivering Isles Resident
Joined : 26 Mar 2007
Posts : 9697
| | Subject: Re: Words Fail Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:17 pm | |
| Reitrunner? I was just explaining how Christians think. It was not an attack on you, or an insult to your beliefs.
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| | | | Reitrenner
Pleasure Specialist
Joined : 19 Nov 2007
Posts : 1312
| | Subject: Re: Words Fail Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:20 pm | |
| I am not debating. I am explaining.
I am not saying Atheism is the GRANDEST thing. But I am saying it is.
Because until you can prove God is real, I will not bend a knee in his name.
Also, I am not saying I am unwilling to believe. Just, alas, prove it.
Until then, God is a fallacy. We are supposed to be living in an age of enlightenment. And alas, I say to you. We still talk to invisible people. Why is this?
If God has a plan for us, and calculates the exact moments of our birth's and deaths, where exactly does that leave abortion, and those who argue against it.
If it is god's plan for those babies to die, that's it, is it also then God's plan for those people to whine about it.
Alas, it also says to respect authority, and never question their decisions, but alas, our government does not condemn abortion wholly, so protesting it, or anything else, is a grave sin, because it too goes against God's plan.
So a couple of things become apparent through this revalation.
1: God's plan is impossible. Chaos theory will win everytime when trying to "explain" God's plan.
2: Abortion protesters are sinners. Golly!
3: If God, is in fact real, he is the single most homicidal being in existence and makes Stalin look like a fucking amateur.
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Last edited by Reitrenner on Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
| | | | Maulkin
Shivering Isles Resident
Joined : 26 Mar 2007
Posts : 9697
| | Subject: Re: Words Fail Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:22 pm | |
| | Reitrenner wrote: | I am not debating. I am explaining.
I am not saying Atheism is the GRANDEST thing. But I am saying it is.
Because until you can prove God is real, I will not bend a knee in his name.
Also, I am not saying I am unwilling to believe. Just, alas, prove it.
Until then, God is a fallacy. We are supposed to be living in an age of enlightenment. And alas, I say to you. We still talk to invisible people. Why is this? |
*sighs* I would discuss this, but I know it will turn into a debate. Let's just derail the thread into something less ticking-timebomb like, shall we?
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| | | | Daestrum
Dwarf of Ironforge
Age : 19
Joined : 02 Nov 2007
Posts : 3075
| | Subject: Re: Words Fail Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:25 pm | |
| | Maulkin wrote: |
*sighs* I would discuss this, but I know it will turn into a debate. Let's just derail the thread into something less ticking-timebomb like, shall we? |
Honestly, Maul, I think a debate thread would be great for letting off the pent up rage we've collected during our postings. |
| | | | Grimzag
Commissar
Age : 20
Joined : 20 Sep 2007
Posts : 2570
Location : Antartica
| | Subject: Re: Words Fail Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:27 pm | |
| | Reitrenner wrote: | Well of course, Science can not teach us morals or values, but I would much rather calculate than pray.
God is a lie, science works. We know that praying for an apple tree to grow will not produce an apple tree. PLANTING one will. |
Not so! How do you know that that science will work tomarrow?
And if you say "because science says so," you're begging the question ^^
In the end, the only gaurantee we have that science will continue working is that we believe that it will because it has done so before. But, just because soemthing worked in the past is no gaurantee it will do so in the future.
Not to mention that ether theory is going back in style ^^
For all you know, you could wake up tomarrow to find the laws of physics have changed! And you cannont prove that they will not, no matter how much science you use.
Besides which, sience is just an ideological paradigm that changes decade to decade. a thousend years ago we believed there were four elements. now there are many more. Perhaps in the future there will be less.
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Then stand aside, for I grow bored with this charade. How simple it is to fill the hearts of men with fear. But I have tarried long enough. I must not waste my power on others, when it is time for the Fantastic Four to tremble before the Menace of Magneto!
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| | | | Reitrenner
Pleasure Specialist
Joined : 19 Nov 2007
Posts : 1312
| | Subject: Re: Words Fail Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:31 pm | |
| Prehaps, but praying to an invisible man did not make these things apparent to us. Study, and hard work did. Science, and it's methods are REAL, we can touch, ascribe, and. debate these things, on logical terms. They are genuine.
God is about as real is Ziot, or dwarves, or Samus Aran.
The only difference is, I listed Good Guys.
God, is the biggest villain in human literature.
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| | | | Daestrum
Dwarf of Ironforge
Age : 19
Joined : 02 Nov 2007
Posts : 3075
| | Subject: Re: Words Fail Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:39 pm | |
| | Reitrenner wrote: | | God, is the biggest villain in human literature. |
*sigh*
How true.
Thanks for including me, by the way.  |
| | | | Grimzag
Commissar
Age : 20
Joined : 20 Sep 2007
Posts : 2570
Location : Antartica
| | Subject: Re: Words Fail Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:41 pm | |
| | Reitrenner wrote: | Prehaps, but praying to an invisible man did not make these things apparent to us. Study, and hard work did. Science, and it's methods are REAL, we can touch, ascribe, and. debate these things, on logical terms. They are genuine.
God is about as real is Ziot, or dwarves, or Samus Aran.
The only difference is, I listed Good Guys.
God, is the biggest villain in human literature. |
Now you're avoiding the issue. The scientific method is just as arbitrary and hap-hazard as theology, and also just as poorly defined. Technology has given us much, but science and technology have historically been two very diffrent and unrelated fields. Relativity theory may work, but why and how it works is as mystical as any other religious practice, and belief in the meta-physics of it (i.e. the conceptualization einstien presents, in this case) is as much a matter of faith as the foundation of any religious doctrine.
Why should i believe gravity is a curvature in space-time just because you give me some equations that resemble such a curve? Maybe you are missing information that would prove it otherwise.
I challenge you to tell me why i should believe in sicence, and i charge you to do it using logic instead of this scientific pragmatisist rhetoric you are feeding us. And "because it works" is not a good proof, 1) because it may not work tomarrow and 2) because there are plenty of other systems that appear to work that science claims are defunct.
 I throw down the gauntlet sir!
_________________
Then stand aside, for I grow bored with this charade. How simple it is to fill the hearts of men with fear. But I have tarried long enough. I must not waste my power on others, when it is time for the Fantastic Four to tremble before the Menace of Magneto!
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