The Death of the ROLE Playing Game

Subject: The Death of the ROLE Playing Game Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:27 am

Disclaimer: this is a rant. If you don't want to read a rant, don't read this.

I have been a DM for 10 years, maybe a little more (since AD&D, though I started late in it's life-cycle). Granted, back when I was 10 and first starting out, I never had a campaign that lasted more than a few adventures, and I had no understanding of how to pick monsters of the right challenge for the party, but regardless I have owned D&D and made dungeons and adventures for it since then.

Today, I played a session of my current campaign, that has made me look back upon all these years of DMing and question the validity of what i have been doing.

My players were in a room in a castle, whcih they knew was inhabited by demons and undead, and which they knew was an active fortress with some level of organization. They were in this castle to save an NPC friend of theirs, whom they did not know if he was alive or dead but had been told by another NPC that he was probably alive, but was being tortured. Of the party, the party leader was a CG swashbuckler.

Now, to understand what happened and why it made me mad, you must understand that many of my players are major MMO players (the CG party leader plays WoW, our elven scout plays Ragnarok, the cleric has played something as well, though i'm not sure what).

This room was being used as a kennel for some wolves (winter wolves), whcih were at a CR at the same as that fo the party. In total, there were 11 wolves, one of which the players had killed along with a minor demon (dretch).

The players decided that the best course of action for the party, rather than saving their friend, who they knew might be dying and was being tortured, was to kill the wolves, one by one, for experience points so they could level. Me being the fair DM that i am, not wanting to arbitrarily take away the player's freedomjust because I felt it was unethical, and knowing that the wolves did actually pose a significant threat to the party if encountered, felt obligated to give them said xp.

Eventually, one of the wolves, which were intelligent, managed to flee and alert the castle, which has prevented the players from getting any loot out of the castle if they wanted to save their friend, so i feel somewhat avenged.

But that's not the problem. The problem is why they did this. because they "wanted to level." because they "wanted xp." I realised, upon reflection,t hat I have heard those words far too many times. Since I got my first player,s that has always been what they talked about and cared about. not advancing the plot. Not exploring the dungeon. Not even killing things or escaping reality. No... just treasure, character builds, and xp.

To be fair, my current party does not not care about the story. They do... in fact, one of the NPCs they roleplayed fairly well with. But, they only care about the story... about playing roles... so long as doing so does not significantly interfere with their ability to get treasure and experience points so they can make better character builds. Most of my players have no backstory for their characters, beyond what I myself set up for them. Some of them, in our first session, even began playing before giving their characters a name, so little do they care for the roles they are supposedly playing.

I thought I had escaped the dilema of high school, where my entire group was powergamers who cared nothing for story. Instead, I have merely moved to another group of powergamers. I have never known a group that played the current version of d&d who were not powergamers, who would actually really care about and participate in all the story work I do instead of making it secondary to their eternal quest for the invincible character. Heck, my players don't even seem to really care abotu wether their characters die (the party leader has a new character all prepared for just such an occasion, which he beliueves is even more powerful than his current one).

Is it too much to ask to have a party that wants to play because they want to tell a story, or explore a world, or even just fight interesting battles? Or shall the role of the DM be reduced to that of a server?

If I didn't love worldbuilding so much, I think I would quit at this point. But, unfortunatley, as unimportant as it may be to my players, I cannot do anythign but press on, if not for their satisfaction then for my own.
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Then stand aside, for I grow bored with this charade. How simple it is to fill the hearts of men with fear. But I have tarried long enough. I must not waste my power on others, when it is time for the Fantastic Four to tremble before the Menace of Magneto!
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A Hard One to Swallow

Forum Espada Age : 16 Joined : 16 Mar 2008 Posts : 1507

Rage meter: 100.

Kill their characters.

Force them to make new characters and set them on a quest to reclaim their lost loot. Set up NPCs and challenges to make them form a backstory. Force them into their character's roles.

Then when you get them to the point where they'd be able to retrieve their stuff, make them fight their old characters.

You're the DM, show them who's boss.
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Subject: Re: The Death of the ROLE Playing Game Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:14 am

I always, always play things like that for the story. Leveling up is nice, but only so far as it advances the plot.

You should have a talk with them. They seems to have very different goals to you, particularly in regards to what they want to gain from the game. It might even be a matter of finding another group of playing whose interests run closer to your own.

...I feel sorry for the dead/tortured NPC. I hope he'll be okay.

Forum Espada Age : 16 Joined : 16 Mar 2008 Posts : 1507

Oh yes, the NPC! MAKE THE NPC KILL THEM! >:D

"Why the fuck didn't you save me you bastards!?"

"We wanted the XP..."

"WHAT THE HELL IS XP!?"

*Stabbity deaths*
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Shivering Isles Resident Joined : 26 Mar 2007 Posts : 9693

Forum Espada Age : 16 Joined : 16 Mar 2008 Posts : 1507

More reason for him to kill his would-be saviors. I know after all that I'd want a pretty damned good excuse as to why they took so long.
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Subject: Re: The Death of the ROLE Playing Game Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:20 am

O__________o

Someone will rescue him... right? After they finish... levelling up.

Edit: I can imagine it.

NPC: Guys! Thank the goddess Richatiu that you're here. But I have to say... what took you so long? I swear it was only a two day trip or so. The pain was... bad.

A: Ah... we couldn't find you.

B: Yeah. We just found a bunch of wolves.

NPC:...Wolves?

B: Yeah. Real nasty too. It took us about five days of tracking to-

A: Shhhhh!

NPC: Suspect

Forum Espada Age : 16 Joined : 16 Mar 2008 Posts : 1507

C: What're you guys saying!? We knew where he was all along, but you guys never listened to me, you were all like "No, kill the wolves first, screw the Prisoner."
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Shivering Isles Resident Joined : 26 Mar 2007 Posts : 9693

But, really... it's not that great a plotline. If you made a good one, fine, but if it's just "fight so and so to rescue Mr. Hostage", there's very little point to playing...
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Spoiler:

Forum Espada Age : 16 Joined : 16 Mar 2008 Posts : 1507

I think it was more than that Maul...
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Subject: Re: The Death of the ROLE Playing Game Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:33 am

[quote="Drouth"]C: What're you guys saying!? We knew where he was all along, but you guys never listened to me, you were all like "No, kill the wolves first, screw the Prisoner."[/quote]

A: What? I thought we'd gotten over this.

B: Yeah, we even gave you the cloak made out of it's skin too.

NPC: . . . .

C: Yeah, I know, but-

B: It was a nice cloak.

A: B, shut up.

C: That's not the point! You guys got cloaks too! And I wanted to get NPC before we tanned the skins! But you guys wouldn't-

NPC: You tanned the skins? I was having my fingers crushed while you were tanning wolf skin?!

C: Um... I tried, I really did-

B: Good wolf meat though!

Edit: Wah? My quote tag is stuffed and I don't know why...

Forum Espada Age : 16 Joined : 16 Mar 2008 Posts : 1507

NPC: I hate you all, except you C, Get me out of here and let's head home, I've got so old trinkets lying around that could be useful to you, oh and I'll let you marry my daughter. A, B, I hope you rot.

Edit: Get rid of the space between the ] and the C?
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Subject: Re: The Death of the ROLE Playing Game Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:46 am

O___o

No! Coding! Why have you abandoned me?!

Subject: Re: The Death of the ROLE Playing Game Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:47 am

Subject: Re: The Death of the ROLE Playing Game Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:47 am

No...