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| | The Death of the ROLE Playing Game |    |
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Marsco
I Saw The Sign
Age : 19
Joined : 07 Dec 2007
Posts : 2552
Location : 19 miles outside the windy city
 |  Subject: Re: The Death of the ROLE Playing Game  Fri Apr 11, 2008 6:59 pm | |
| | Grimzag wrote: | It would, tender ^^
And I do think Ark understands, Kevin. He is attmepting to give us good general advice. Just because we have already tried those routes without success doesn't mean he doesn't understand.
At any rate, I have come up with a new strategy. And if this doesn't work, nothing will. The players ar enow part of a tribe of 30 NPCs. Every NPC is going to have a name, a personality, rolled stats, alignment and family commitments (By which i mean I will randomly generate these things for each of them).
One of the players is leading the tribe via majority election. The title basically means he makes executive decisions when a vote cannot be called. In all other instances, the tribe decides what it is to do via majority vote. Another player is in charge of it's armory and wealth. No money is used within the tribe, the players must ask the other members for things. The one who survived is going to get picked up by the tribe, and the final player (formerly the party leader) is a female, feral Shifter the tribe has captured and is attempting to integrate.
The hope is to force the players, both emotionally and economically, to form an attachment to the other NPCs and a need to look out for their well-being. For example, if one of them is brought to negative hp, and the party healer heals a PC at 0 hp instead of her, her husband will likely get mad at the party leader and start voting against them or deny them his services. Likewise, if she dies the tribe as a whole may get mad at the players and throw them out, naturally keeping much of the loot they have since everything is communal property.
Adventures will be like star trek or battlestar galactica episodes, by which I mean there will be a consistent group of NPCs around the players at all times, who may assist the player sin their actions or cause problems themselves.
If this plan fails, then there is no solution that i can see. This is going to be a bit of work (not the adventures, the tibe itself). I will make the world as real... as living and breathing... as I possibly can given the limitations of my abilities. If this doesn't immerse them, nothing will. |
That actually sounds like a cool idea, I would give it a shot >.>
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|  | | Grimzag
Commissar
Age : 20
Joined : 20 Sep 2007
Posts : 2578
Location : Antartica
| | Subject: Re: The Death of the ROLE Playing Game Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:01 pm | |
| The players seemed indiffrent to it, though, which is always a bad sign ><
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Then stand aside, for I grow bored with this charade. How simple it is to fill the hearts of men with fear. But I have tarried long enough. I must not waste my power on others, when it is time for the Fantastic Four to tremble before the Menace of Magneto!
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A Hard One to Swallow |
| | | | Marsco
I Saw The Sign
Age : 19
Joined : 07 Dec 2007
Posts : 2552
Location : 19 miles outside the windy city
| | Subject: Re: The Death of the ROLE Playing Game Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:02 pm | |
| That sucks :/ Cause honestly that sounds intriguing to me, I would like to try it. And according to KC I'm just one of those silly "MMO gamers."
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| | | | Oblivion
Lurking Grue
Age : 23
Joined : 17 Sep 2007
Posts : 2231
Location : Right behind you!!
| | Subject: Re: The Death of the ROLE Playing Game Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:03 pm | |
| | KevinConner wrote: | | Ark, quite honestly, it seems to me all you do is completely ignore or otherwise don't understand the valid issues that Grim and I are complaining about. In fact, it seems to me you weren't even around in the RPG circuit prior to 3rd edition. |
This seems like you're accusing everyone who wasn't playing before 3.0 of being at fault. I seriously hope I'm misunderstanding, otherwise you're proving Ark right by overgeneralizing just like he accused you of!
@Marsco: I honestly say ignore him, that's the only reason I haven't been banned from this forum. There's a lot of times I've had a reply in mind for Kevin and kept silent for the sake of keeping myself around here. In other news, I'd gladly help you learn the game if you're interested. (That's one thing I like about everything I've heard about 4E - it's supposedly going to be easier for new players to learn the rules and such.)
@Grimzag: Yeah that is a bad sign. I draw a very, very, very distinct line when it comes to powergamers, because I've had a powergamer or two in my playing groups and both of them were excellent roleplayers as well. The difference between a powergamer - someone who enjoys playing powerful characters, but still roleplays - and a munchkin - someone who ONLY plays powerful characters and only does so for the statistical pleasure of killing stuff - is very distinct in my viewpoint and I have no objections to voicing such. It sounds to me like you don't have powergamers in your playing group, you have munchkins: they don't care jack squat about their characters, remaining in-character, or participating in a storyline, only about gaining power. The ONLY cure for that, I'm afraid, is either a life-threatening traumatic experience that could have been avoided through proper RP (and no, I don't mean the lives of their characters, because we've already seen they have no connections to the characters they've made and probably six or seven spares waiting in the wings) or to find a new group. Munchkins are nigh-impossible to redeem, I'm afraid.
A powergamer, on the other hand, might drive you nuts slightly with his powerful character, but at least he's there for the RP above all and will do his utmost to remain IC.
(I'm tempted to copy-paste the Stormwind Fallacy for you folks to read.)
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Oderint Dum Metuant
 
When Bort says "Pleez No Eet", he fsrking means it.
Wanna come with me? I should warn you, you're gonna see all sorts of things. Ghosts from the past. Aliens from the future. The day the Earth died in a ball of flame. It won't be quiet, it won't be safe, and it won't be calm. But it'll be the trip of a lifetime!
Last edited by Oblivion on Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
| | | | Marsco
I Saw The Sign
Age : 19
Joined : 07 Dec 2007
Posts : 2552
Location : 19 miles outside the windy city
| | Subject: Re: The Death of the ROLE Playing Game Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:08 pm | |
| | Oblivion wrote: | | KevinConner wrote: | | Ark, quite honestly, it seems to me all you do is completely ignore or otherwise don't understand the valid issues that Grim and I are complaining about. In fact, it seems to me you weren't even around in the RPG circuit prior to 3rd edition. |
This seems like you're accusing everyone who wasn't playing before 3.0 of being at fault. I seriously hope I'm misunderstanding, otherwise you're proving Ark right by overgeneralizing just like he accused you of!
@Marsco: I honestly say ignore him, that's the only reason I haven't been banned from this forum. There's a lot of times I've had a reply in mind for Kevin and kept silent for the sake of keeping myself around here. In other news, I'd gladly help you learn the game if you're interested. (That's one thing I like about everything I've heard about 4E - it's supposedly going to be easier for new players to learn the rules and such.)
@Grimzag: Yeah that is a bad sign. I draw a very, very, very distinct line when it comes to powergamers, because I've had a powergamer or two in my playing groups and both of them were excellent roleplayers as well. The difference between a powergamer - someone who enjoys playing powerful characters, but still roleplays - and a munchkin - someone who ONLY plays powerful characters and only does so for the statistical pleasure of killing stuff - is very distinct in my viewpoint and I have no objections to voicing such. (I'm tempted to copy-paste the Stormwind Fallacy for you folks to read.) |
Might take you up on your offer, but I would have no one to play it with in RL
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| | | | Oblivion
Lurking Grue
Age : 23
Joined : 17 Sep 2007
Posts : 2231
Location : Right behind you!!
| | Subject: Re: The Death of the ROLE Playing Game Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:10 pm | |
| Sad to hear. Maybe you could get in on the next Play-by-post that someone runs.
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Oderint Dum Metuant
When Bort says "Pleez No Eet", he fsrking means it.
Wanna come with me? I should warn you, you're gonna see all sorts of things. Ghosts from the past. Aliens from the future. The day the Earth died in a ball of flame. It won't be quiet, it won't be safe, and it won't be calm. But it'll be the trip of a lifetime! |
| | | | Marsco
I Saw The Sign
Age : 19
Joined : 07 Dec 2007
Posts : 2552
Location : 19 miles outside the windy city
| | Subject: Re: The Death of the ROLE Playing Game Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:11 pm | |
| Possibly, but I would have to learn the rules and such first.
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| | | | MessiahForHire
Mischief and Mayhem
Joined : 10 Oct 2007
Posts : 3990
| | Subject: Re: The Death of the ROLE Playing Game Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:13 pm | |
| Same, I would also have to learn the rules, but it does seem interesting to do on the forums here with you peoples. Also, though I haven't gone through any of the stuff for it, I thought  at the prospect of a Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay
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| | | | KevinConner
Joined : 09 Nov 2007
Posts : 847
| | Subject: Re: The Death of the ROLE Playing Game Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:14 pm | |
| WFRP is awesome ^_^
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| | | | MessiahForHire
Mischief and Mayhem
Joined : 10 Oct 2007
Posts : 3990
| | Subject: Re: The Death of the ROLE Playing Game Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:14 pm | |
| And something I want to try.
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| | | | Grimzag
Commissar
Age : 20
Joined : 20 Sep 2007
Posts : 2578
Location : Antartica
| | Subject: Re: The Death of the ROLE Playing Game Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:23 pm | |
| | Oblivion wrote: |
@Grimzag: Yeah that is a bad sign. I draw a very, very, very distinct line when it comes to powergamers, because I've had a powergamer or two in my playing groups and both of them were excellent roleplayers as well. The difference between a powergamer - someone who enjoys playing powerful characters, but still roleplays - and a munchkin - someone who ONLY plays powerful characters and only does so for the statistical pleasure of killing stuff - is very distinct in my viewpoint and I have no objections to voicing such. It sounds to me like you don't have powergamers in your playing group, you have munchkins: they don't care jack squat about their characters, remaining in-character, or participating in a storyline, only about gaining power. The ONLY cure for that, I'm afraid, is either a life-threatening traumatic experience that could have been avoided through proper RP (and no, I don't mean the lives of their characters, because we've already seen they have no connections to the characters they've made and probably six or seven spares waiting in the wings) or to find a new group. Munchkins are nigh-impossible to redeem, I'm afraid.
A powergamer, on the other hand, might drive you nuts slightly with his powerful character, but at least he's there for the RP above all and will do his utmost to remain IC.
(I'm tempted to copy-paste the Stormwind Fallacy for you folks to read.) |
Ah. Yes, I know the difference between these two groups, and I have no problem with powergamers as you define them. The guy who's character survived was one of these (his character just happens to be true neutral, so he doesn't have to care).
The only real Munchkin (good choice of terms, btw ;) ) would be the former party leader, the one who decided they would slaughter wolves. He does roleplay a little, but he cares more about character builds, and he was honestly glad his old character died so he could make a new one. Fortunatley, his new character is a CN rage-filled killing machine, so he can satisfy his need to p@wn things while remaining in character. That said, I'm not giving him any more kennels full of xp to rampage through >< He's the one who seemed the most indiffrent to the new concept, and has in fact designed his character in such a way as to avoid having to interact with or care much about the tribe at all (though I can't say that that is intentional, he probably just though it would be cool to be a cavewoman).
_________________
Then stand aside, for I grow bored with this charade. How simple it is to fill the hearts of men with fear. But I have tarried long enough. I must not waste my power on others, when it is time for the Fantastic Four to tremble before the Menace of Magneto!
----------------------------------------
A Hard One to Swallow |
| | | | KevinConner
Joined : 09 Nov 2007
Posts : 847
| | Subject: Re: The Death of the ROLE Playing Game Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:30 pm | |
| Grim -- I once took out 3 level 5 GURPS characters in a deadlands game with a level 1 move earth spell. Would you consider that power gaming?
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| | | | Oblivion
Lurking Grue
Age : 23
Joined : 17 Sep 2007
Posts : 2231
Location : Right behind you!!
| | Subject: Re: The Death of the ROLE Playing Game Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:36 pm | |
| @Grim: Eh, I guess that's passable, although I dislike having CN just blanket labeled as the "kill everything and don't give a damn" alignment. As I listed in another thread I've played several CN characters and seen several more well-played and much deeper than "If it moves I kill it".
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Oderint Dum Metuant
When Bort says "Pleez No Eet", he fsrking means it.
Wanna come with me? I should warn you, you're gonna see all sorts of things. Ghosts from the past. Aliens from the future. The day the Earth died in a ball of flame. It won't be quiet, it won't be safe, and it won't be calm. But it'll be the trip of a lifetime! |
| | | | Grimzag
Commissar
Age : 20
Joined : 20 Sep 2007
Posts : 2578
Location : Antartica
| | Subject: Re: The Death of the ROLE Playing Game Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:40 pm | |
| Not if there was a good and valid roleplaying reason why your character had move earth.
As for wether or not it is a good thing you were able to do that, that's a question concerning the system itself, not the players.
If I play a Warlock because I think throwing balls of eldritch fire is cool, does that make me a powergamer if Warlocks are a broken class?
If I play a monk because I think they are the best class in the game and will gaurantee the best build possible, does that not make me a powergamer if monks are in fact the weakest class?
The answer to both is no. the first, because I became powerful as a side effect of my wanting to play an interesting character, the second because the only thing preventing me from making a hacked build is my own ignorance.
@Oblivion: Oh, i agree, but he's also a barbarian so it amkes some sense. And i will expect him to act chaotic and neutral, or I'll shift his alignment and make people hate him.
_________________
Then stand aside, for I grow bored with this charade. How simple it is to fill the hearts of men with fear. But I have tarried long enough. I must not waste my power on others, when it is time for the Fantastic Four to tremble before the Menace of Magneto!
----------------------------------------
A Hard One to Swallow |
| | | | KevinConner
Joined : 09 Nov 2007
Posts : 847
| | Subject: Re: The Death of the ROLE Playing Game Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:41 pm | |
| Chaotic Neutral is more along the lines of "If I don't like his face and he's in my way I'll shank him, but I won't go out of my way to shank him unless he pisses me off enough."
CE if "I'll do anything I damn well please any time I want." Of course only one with an int score of 3 would kill someone in public without being in a high position of power.
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